tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post4727240975110782934..comments2023-10-24T06:40:27.247-06:00Comments on 11th Heaven's Homemaking Haven: Please join us RIGHT NOW for the "Questions About Mormonism" Live Chat!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-86454146088467076062009-10-08T21:20:12.410-06:002009-10-08T21:20:12.410-06:00Ah, I thought you might be asking about this becau...Ah, I thought you might be asking about this because of your husband. Let me know how the conversation with your MIL goes! (if you want)Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-49223048772446417392009-10-08T21:00:12.446-06:002009-10-08T21:00:12.446-06:00Sorry about the name mix up! Too many Beths invol...Sorry about the name mix up! Too many Beths involved here! I guess you can't hijack your own name, though.<br /><br />All three of you Ladies, <br /><br />Thanks for the info about Sons of Perdition (and the garments). I can now reassure my MIL that her step son does not qualify for that title. I'm sure that will ease her heart quite a bit.Keeslermomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346431440867437806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-12106542484917779602009-10-08T18:16:21.651-06:002009-10-08T18:16:21.651-06:00mom2my9:
I carried on so about the sons of perditi...mom2my9:<br />I carried on so about the sons of perdition that I forgot to answer your question about what I thought about changing styles and modesty, etc. I've lived in happy valley so long, when we ventured out across the country this summer, I was absolutely stunned at how women dress. I've seen more boobs and armpits and hot pants than.....I don't know what. My sister in law commented when she visited here how women were more modest in their choices of swimming suits but that it looked nice because people weren't all hanging out....jrtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-26845408010628804082009-10-08T18:01:14.047-06:002009-10-08T18:01:14.047-06:00mom2my9:
Yes, I loved that talk so much. I just l...mom2my9:<br />Yes, I loved that talk so much. I just listened to it again while posting the link to it for Ms. Keesler. Really inspired me, as did all of conference.jrtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-31661548199192508152009-10-08T17:59:27.015-06:002009-10-08T17:59:27.015-06:00jrt, that is awesome that you posted the link to t...jrt, that is awesome that you posted the link to that talk on youtube! Thank you! I really hope everyone who reads this will go and listen to it.Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-87806870764368081622009-10-08T17:57:03.451-06:002009-10-08T17:57:03.451-06:00I know, I was totally confused earlier today, Beth...I know, I was totally confused earlier today, Beth, whether you were Beth or Ms. Keesler!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-33903328194619570762009-10-08T17:56:21.161-06:002009-10-08T17:56:21.161-06:00Ms. Keesler, the link I gave was for text. The fo...Ms. Keesler, the link I gave was for text. The following is the video of that talk, which would be more powerful:<br />It is in 2 parts on youtube, or you can go to lds.org and choose the audiovideo for general conference and scroll to the sunday p.m. session and watch it there. I hope you'll take time to listen to his testimony. This is about as fiery as it gets over the pulpit in our church. It motivated me to be a better person, to stand by my beliefs, to defend the prophet and to study the scriptures more.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld0_7fKGdRM&feature=rel<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulwDBslMcR4&feature=relatedjrtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-71263395194358540802009-10-08T17:56:12.590-06:002009-10-08T17:56:12.590-06:00jrt, thank you so, so much for looking that up for...jrt, thank you so, so much for looking that up for us. That explains the sons of perdition very clearly.<br /><br />Was not that talk by Elder Jeffery R. Holland the most amazing thing you have ever heard? It gives me chills just to think about it, literally.<br /><br />And I'm not sure who said it, maybe it was him, but something that struck me as so real and true was when someone said that an evil man could not have written The Book of Mormon and a good man wouldn't have. If anyone who wants to know if that statement is true, read The Book of Mormon, and you will see that that statement is indisputable and if you pray and ask with a sincere heart, it will be manifest to you by The Holy Ghost that it is the word of God, and not false scripture.Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-17687964326465238992009-10-08T17:50:35.187-06:002009-10-08T17:50:35.187-06:00Wow, my eyes about popped out of head there for a ...Wow, my eyes about popped out of head there for a moment..thought somebody hacked my account and was posting as me (Beth)..whewwwww, :)Beth R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02105423736044366564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-40784976189402332192009-10-08T17:30:31.007-06:002009-10-08T17:30:31.007-06:00Ms. Keesler, I took some time after work to look s...Ms. Keesler, I took some time after work to look stuff up. I found a quote from Joseph Smith, and I copied and pasted a statement from a website where people were discussing the same thing we are. First the quote: <br /> The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 358).<br /><br />Now the question and answer from another website:<br />Are all excommunicated members of the Church classified as Sons of Perdition? Are all nonbelievers?<br /><br />No. First, in order to become a son of perdition, a person must hold the true priesthood of God. Since only male members of the Church can even hold the priesthood, only apostate Church members have the possibility of being classified as Sons of Perdition. Second, in order to be a son of perdition, a person must rebel against God with full light and knowledge that he is in fact doing so. Succumbing to temptation or a lack of faith is not sufficient. One must defy God with full knowledge that he is indeed God. It is impossible for us to name anyone as a son of perdition, barring any revelation from the Holy Ghost, for only God truly understands the intentions of a person. While most men and women will suffer the pains of hell for their wickedness, precious few have descended to the depths of open depravity which would classify them as Sons of Perdition.<br /><br />Ms. Keesler, I guess we don't dwell so much on whether or not we'll be sons of perdition because in all honesty, it seems few in all humanity will actually receive it. I'm anticipating you might ask about the statement: "only apostate Church members have the possibility of being classified as Sons of Perdition". That would be apostate priesthood holders who have had all knowledge of God revealed to them, not an average joe who goes inactive or even sins and gets excommunicated. To declare people lost as sons of perdition takes away their opportunity to repent. We can't make that judgement. If being "inactive" or leaving the church by free will or excommunication makes one a son of perdition, then that includes a lot of my family members. I don't see them that way, so I'm sure a loving Heavenly Father doesn't, either. I know they have the opportunity to choose for themselves---free agency. I know they also have the opportunity to repent. I'm grateful for that. "Son of Perdition" is a heavy subject, and we might end up just splitting hairs. I'll end with my 'summary opinion' :o and a link to a talk about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon from General Conference a few days ago. I think that it would take someone like Joseph Smith--who had a vision as plain as day of God the Father and Jesus Christ---to become a son of perdition if he denied it. He never denied it. Had he been a false prophet, I think he would have caved. Why keep up a lie from the time you are 14 until death (because of that lie) at age 33? Why put your family and others through that? Sealing that testimony with his blood and not denying the vision he had and the witness of the Holy Ghost that he had, even to death tells me something about him. It is better explained by an apostle, Jeffrey R. Holland<br />http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-1117-28,00.html<br /><br />God Bless you.<br />P.S. Jen, I stand corrected on anything if other LDS out there know something I don't about our doctrine.jrtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-31287193082155125292009-10-08T09:18:00.654-06:002009-10-08T09:18:00.654-06:00Let me just clarify that a person who does not hav...Let me just clarify that a person who does not have a chance to marry in this life, WILL receive the opportunity in the next, according to our beliefs.Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-83054889663820360722009-10-08T09:10:46.676-06:002009-10-08T09:10:46.676-06:00Oh, I see! That was really confusing to me, but th...Oh, I see! That was really confusing to me, but then again, I become confused easily!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-67258100782074691332009-10-08T09:09:56.285-06:002009-10-08T09:09:56.285-06:00Sorry-That Beth was me-I was logged into my e-mail...Sorry-That Beth was me-I was logged into my e-mail right before and forgot to switch accounts!Keeslermomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346431440867437806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-20230643427566551942009-10-08T09:01:50.989-06:002009-10-08T09:01:50.989-06:00Beth, no I don't believe that a man who believ...Beth, no I don't believe that a man who believes the Mormon church, then leaves to become a mainstream Christian is a son of perdition. As far as I understand it, a man (or woman) has to have had irrefutable evidence of God, and then has to go about trying to destroy the church to become a son of perdition. As I said to Ms. Keesler earlier, I can't really judge who might be a son of perdition, because only God knows what level of belief a person has.<br /><br />About your question about a man who is unable to serve a mission. A man does not have to serve a mission to be married in the temple. Also, a man does not have to marry in order to make covenants in the temple. However, we believe that a man must seek to become married and sealed in the temple to attain entrance into the Celestial Kingdom. If he cannot marry because of circumstances beyond his control, then he will be given that opportunity in the next life. However, if he chooses not to marry because of reasons of selfishness, such as not wanting to start a family, we believe he will be held accountable for this. In the case of mental illness, of course God will judge fairly.<br /><br />Question: Beth, are you the same Beth who posted earlier here? I was under the impression you were LDS. Just wondering...Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-63545470828299557852009-10-08T08:49:53.088-06:002009-10-08T08:49:53.088-06:00So, just to clarify, if a man has received the pri...So, just to clarify, if a man has received the priesthood, been a true believer, and leaves he church, he is a son of perdition? Does it matter if he left to attend a christian church? Does that then just bump him down a heaven level, or does he go straight to hell for believing and leaving?<br /><br />And a young mad who is unable to do his mission, and therefor unable to be married in the temple, he is resigned to lower heaven too?Keeslermomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02166926769703197548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-44965899037962097742009-10-08T00:08:11.805-06:002009-10-08T00:08:11.805-06:00You know jrt175, these days, with the extreme fash...You know jrt175, these days, with the extreme fashions coming about as they are, the way a Mormon dresses almost does shout MORMON! We don't wear tank tops, short shorts or short skirts, tattoos, body piercings, extreme hair styles, etc. so as fashion changes, we stand out more and more. I this way of standing out as a Mormon will continue to be more noticeable as time goes on and fashion becomes more extreme and more immodest. What do you think?Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-19522370347228225792009-10-07T22:13:14.527-06:002009-10-07T22:13:14.527-06:00Ms. Keesler: from the LDS point of view, that wou...Ms. Keesler: from the LDS point of view, that would be the Melchezidek (highest) priesthood. Sorry, forgot to clarify. At age 12 boys are ordained to the Aaronic priesthood. It is sometimes referred to as a "lesser" priesthood. Not lesser, as in less important, only that it deals with more temporal duties, like blessing and passing the sacrament, collecting fast offerings, serving the poor. The Melchezidek priesthood is the priesthood men hold who have the "keys" (authority) to perform saving ordinances, sealings in the temple,laying on of hands to confer the Gift of the Holy Ghost, etc. Also, thank you for refreshing my memory about the meaning of the Jewish clothing. I appreciate diversity and love to see/learn about the things different cultures and religions hold sacred. I suppose we could wear something outwardly that shouts "MORMON", like a funky hat or something :) but I personally like the idea of something private as I go about my daily life.jrt175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-74573554930039127642009-10-07T21:10:24.684-06:002009-10-07T21:10:24.684-06:00Ms. Keesler, I guess the Mormon garments are more ...Ms. Keesler, I guess the Mormon garments are more "secret" because they are underwear and, in general, people don't talk about their underwear too much, especially if it's "magic"! :)<br /><br />And thanks for the tidbit about the Jewish religion. I love to learn something new every day!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-20236712694684697052009-10-07T21:06:29.004-06:002009-10-07T21:06:29.004-06:00Forgot to say-Yes, I know that Orthodox Jews and M...Forgot to say-Yes, I know that Orthodox Jews and Muslims wear special clothes, but they are not secret. Seems like the "magic underwear" is. This makes it more susceptible to speculation. <br /><br />PS-The Jewish thing is called tallit, and the tassels are called tzitzit. The tassels are knotted five times to remind Jews of the five books of Moses. The four spaces between these knots represent the letters of God's name, YHWH. And the knots along the prayer shawl edges use exactly 613 knotted strings, representing the 613 laws of the Torah.<br /><br />Your new knowledge for the day!<br /> <br />Now I have the song from Veggie Tales Jonah in my head <br />"Do what's right.<br />Don't provoke.<br />Put four tassels on your cloak.<br />Do not laugh, it's not a joke.<br />A message from the Lord!"Keeslermomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346431440867437806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-46972929422413851962009-10-07T20:52:43.012-06:002009-10-07T20:52:43.012-06:00JRT,
Read with sunshine!
Thanks for adding your ...JRT,<br /><br />Read with sunshine!<br /><br />Thanks for adding your thoughts. <br /><br />"Sons of perdition have to have a personal witness of Jesus Christ, as in not just believe, but KNOW, because they have seen him and have had the priesthood and deny it all."<br /><br />Please clarify "the priesthood". Is that the one at age 13?Keeslermomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346431440867437806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-69044586468937685462009-10-07T20:21:00.674-06:002009-10-07T20:21:00.674-06:00jrt175, no worries! I always worry myself about ho...jrt175, no worries! I always worry myself about how I sound because it is hard to put forth voice inflection in typing. You sounded great!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-3191268245497752752009-10-07T20:15:56.920-06:002009-10-07T20:15:56.920-06:00I'm thinking I sounded gruff and know-it-all-i...I'm thinking I sounded gruff and know-it-all-ish. Please re-read that with a smile and a happy voice, as I meant it. I really enjoy the discussion and usually lurk, but had some time tonight....jrt175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-91964773528861322182009-10-07T20:02:57.005-06:002009-10-07T20:02:57.005-06:00jrt175, beautiful way of explaining this doctrine ...jrt175, beautiful way of explaining this doctrine we have been discussing. Thank you so much for this addition and I surely do hope you can return again next week or some time thereafter!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-40376682765343474262009-10-07T19:56:45.803-06:002009-10-07T19:56:45.803-06:00I never get to join live on Tuesdays, so I'm l...I never get to join live on Tuesdays, so I'm leaving a comment. I want to add my two-cents on a few things. The garment is a daily, private reminder of personal covenants made with god. It's really not so strange, others wear sacred clothing: Some Jews wear a type of apron with prayer strings (sorry, don't know the name), Muslims cover the head for modesty, and if I'm not mistaken, it also shows covenant/commitment (?). Even wearing a cross pendant is an outward expression of an inward commitment. We aren't the only ones wearing something, ours is just worn under our everyday clothing, so silly, secret, magical things have been made up about them.<br />Regarding the celestial kingdom and everything: In a nutshell, we will go where we are most comfortable and happy, spiritually. God is as merciful as possible and as just as necessary. We do believe in degrees of glory,and it gets confusing when you read the doctrine. I take solace in the idea that God will judge me perfectly and I will be where I deserve to be, and will be completely happy there. In church a guy gave a talk on this and tried to explain marriage and the celestial kingdom like this: "My friend and his wife were in 'The Quilted Bear'. She was in heaven, he was in eternal torment. The Celestial Kingdom is not like this. You will go where you are both happy together." I thought that was a clever way to explain a deep concept. "In my Father's house are many mansions.." We are all at different levels of spiritual maturity and our Heavenly Father will deal justly with each of us. Having gone through the temple isn't a 'golden ticket'. We still strive to keep covenants, commandments and to live a christ like life until the end.<br /> I want to add that sons of perdition are not run of the mill mormons who leave the church. We can't judge that, because people can always repent and stop being hateful, etc. Sons of perdition have to have a personal witness of Jesus Christ, as in not just believe, but KNOW, because they have seen him and have had the priesthood and deny it all. We're talking about Judas Iscariot and that sort----a prophet or apostle who can have no doubt.jrt175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3421475838864238344.post-11416079462319163882009-10-07T19:33:13.051-06:002009-10-07T19:33:13.051-06:00Ms. Keesler, I agree, some of the early teachings ...Ms. Keesler, I agree, some of the early teachings are strange, not that I don't believe them, but even so. I was speaking with my father-in-law, who is the most righteous, humble, spiritual person I know, about this very matter recently. If you would like to learn some very beneficial information that is more applicable to this day and age, and could really be applicable to your life, whether you are Mormon or not, I would recommend viewing some of the recent conference addresses. All you have to do is go to http://lds.org, click under the General Conference bold print (near the top of the page) on "archives of the Conference", and quickly download the new media player. I have to say I am super-impressed with the video quality of the player the church now uses. Never seen better. Anyway, let me know what else you come across that you have questions about!Mom2my10 @ 11th Heavenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14813012011182498512noreply@blogger.com