If you are a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, please feel free to join in the discussion and share your experiences as well! The more the merrier!
If you don't know much about Mormon beliefs, why don't you take a moment to watch this 2-minute video, featuring a message about hope, by a member of the presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, President Dieter F. Uchtdorf....
Please uphold the following guidelines while participating in this chat:
1. This chat should be positive and uplifting, gentle and kind, so as to invite The Spirit of The Lord. We are all trying to emmulate the life of Christ and let's demonstrate that here today.
2. Please refrain from criticizing others beliefs, religions or religious leaders. This can cause contention and ..."fools lips enter into contention." Proverbs 18:6.
3. Name-calling, sarasm, insulting, and slander have no place here and will cause the offending participant to be banned from the discussion.
4. If a comment takes away from the spirit of the meeting, I, as the blog author, reserve the right to delete it.
The following is one of my favorite artistic depictions of Christ's suffering in The Garden of Gethsemane by J. Kirk Richards...
Luke 22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into atemptation.
41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Again, thank you for being here and I look forward to opening doors of understanding one with another. :)
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36 comments:
Okay, we're live! Anyone out there who would like to talk to a real live Mormon?
How do you believe you can go to Heaven?
We believe that that first step in getting to Heaven is to repent and be baptized as per this scripture in Acts 2:
37 "¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
We also believe that we must strive diligently to keep all of God's commandments. While we will fail, as no man is perfect, we believe that if we repent and believe on the name of Jesus, his atonement will enable us to live with Him and His Father in Heaven again after we've done all we can do.
Does that answer your question?
I've heard that Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. Is that true?
I've also heard that you believe woman are going to be eternally expecting in Heaven. True?
Anonymous, it is true. We believe in a godhead, which includes God, The Eternal Father, His Son, Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost. We believe these are three separate and distinct beings. We believe that Jesus was one of God's spirit children, as are all of us, and that Satan is also one of God's spirit children. Satan rebelled, however, in a great war in heaven, and was cast out forever. That war is described in Revelation 12...
7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."
Hopefully that makes sense!
Anonymous, no, I have actually never heard that women are going to be eternally expecting in Heaven. I have heard that that is a common misconception about Mormons, though, so thank you for giving me the opportunity to clear that up!
But the Bible describes Satan as an angel, not as His son.
Respectfully, I don't believe that Jesus and Satan were ever on the same level. For instance, Jesus, as God's Son has the power to take away sin and grant salvation. Satan doesn't have the power to take away salvation. I don't mean to offend. I'm just trying to understand. My grandmother is Mormon (sort of).
Yes, Anonymous, the Bible does describe Satan that way. But we believe that God created all things, including Satan and all other angels.
Also, I totally agree with you about them not being on the same level. Jesus Christ was chosen from the beginning of time to atone for our sins and to be our savior. Satan was never destined for that role. Certainly no comparison! There is a really good article describing how Satan and Jesus are brothers if you want to read it. It's here...
http://tinyurl.com/ltfj38
Anonymous, I don't take offense at all to what you are saying! I'm so glad I can try to help you understand our beliefs!
Oh, the article I referenced is the second question down the page. Sorry about that...
Ezekiel 28:14--Here Ezekiel is addressing the king of Tyrus, but also the spirit behind him, which was Satan. Here, Scripture refers to him as a cherub, which is a created being, not a spiritual child. Verse 15--he was created. Jesus was not created. As God, He has always been. In the flesh, He was begotten.
Okay, reading the article. Jesus is the firstborn according to the article. My Bible says in John 3:16 that He is the ONLY begotten, not just first.
Anonymous, members of my faith believe that all angels, cherubs, and so forth are spirit children of Heavenly Father. Thus, we believe Satan is also.
To address your second comment, when The Bible refers to The Only Begotten son, we believe it is referring to the fact that Jesus is the only personage who ever lived that had God, The Eternal Father as His father and a mortal mother, being Mary.
As far as believing that Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers, this does not have an effect on the fact that I feel that Satan is the most evil being out there, and I do everything I can to keep his influence out of my life and the lives of my children. I also do everything in my power to make sure we have The Spirit of The Lord with us by trying to live His teachings and emulating His life.
Satan is refered to as a cherub in Ezekiel, thus making him an angelic being. In Hebrews one, God tells us that He "made His Son so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
Hebrews1:4-5, KJV
Let me ask you this, Anonymous....do you believe that we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father?
Alexis, I agree with your point. Jesus is certainly a special being in that He was The Only Begotten of The Father and He was the one who was chosen to atone for our sins. Certainly God has never said to anyone else He created that He has begotten them, for certainly He has only begotten one in the flesh, and that is His Son, Jesus Christ.
No. We are all God's creation, but until we accept the atoning work of Jesus on the cross by grace through faith, not by works, only then are we declared children of God, and not before.
So if God suddenly doesn't have this second son, if He can disinherit him, do you believe in eternal security?
The article didn't even make me say "Hmm..."
Again, I'm not trying to offend. I just don't see anywhere in my God-written Bible where it says that Satan is or was or ever will be the son of God.
Anonymous, I so agree that we must accept Him and His atoning work to be saved. However, according to James 2:20 "Faith without words is dead." Members of our faith truly take this scripture literally, meaning that faith without works will have little effect on our salvation. We believe we must also do our best to keep the commandments of God, in addition to believing in Jesus Christ. Were that not the case, I don't believe God would have spent so much time having His commandments written out if He didn't expect us to keep them. We certainly believe that without Jesus Christ, no man would be able to return to live with The Father in Heaven again, but we believe that we have to do our part as well. I realize that sets us apart from many Christian sects, but it is what we believe.
About your next comment, I'm not sure I understand your question about God's "second son"? Could you clarify?
Anonymous, we believe in other scripture in addition to The Bible. Some of our beliefs come from verses in The Book of Mormon and other works of scripture which clarify things that may be difficult to understand in The Bible. That's why Mormons LOVE The Book of Mormon, because it truly is another testament of Jesus Christ, a second reference if you will, that can help one to better understand certain Biblical passages.
The second son is Satan.
Hey Jen! Thanks for doing this again!
Jen, when the Bible talks about being justified, as in Romans 5, can you please explain what Mormons believe about that?
As a Christian, I believe that when the Bible says we are justified, it means that at the moment of salvation, we are born again spiritually, and we become righteous, in that moment, just as Christ is righteous (his life, lived in my behalf) and that no amount of good works on my behalf can add anything to that righteousness.
Oh, okay. I'm not what birth order we believe Satan came in, but we do believe that Jesus Christ was the first-born spirit child of His Heavenly Father. We also believe that each and every one of us are also spirit children of Heavenly Father, therefore he has billions of spirit children whom He wants to return to live with Him again.
Can you also please explain how the LDS church discredits all the verses that speak of Jesus and God as being one?
In Genesis, it says that in the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth. Then in John, it says in the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In verse 3 it says that all things were made by Him (Jesus).
Also, in John 17:11 and 17:21, when Jesus is praying, He prays that the disciples and other followers of Christ would be one, as He and the Father are one.
That seems to be so clear to me, how do you come to the conclusion of Jesus and God being separate beings?
Hi again, Michelle! Michelle, I actually don't know what the word "justified" actually means in this scriptural content. I certainly believe that faith is the first step in receiving salvation, but I do not believe it is the only step. Our fourth Article of Faith states...
4 "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
We believe that we must continually repent of our wrong-doings and strive diligently to do The Lord's work. As stated before, we not only use The Bible to teach us this, as in James 2:20 "faith without works is dead", but we use our additional scripture to teach us this as well.
Again, Michelle, I think this is yet another point you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on. I respect your belief as a traditional Christian that all we need is faith to be saved, but we do have differing beliefs on this matter.
Okay Michelle, Mormons believe that The Jehovah of The Old Testament is Jesus Christ and that Elohim is His Father. I would like to further explain why believe that they are separate beings, but I will need a moment. Just a sec....
Michelle, as the scriptures you pointed out seem to make your beliefs so clear to you, the following scriptures to which I refer seem to verify my beliefs to me...
Matt. 26: 39, 42
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let thiscup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
• • •
42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Mark 15: 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mark 1: 9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Michelle, to me, all of these scripture denote that Jesus Christ had a Father in Heaven. I simply does not make sense to me that He would be pleading with Himself, or asking Himself if the cup could pass from Him, or throwing His voice from Heaven during Jesus' baptism. I know that technically He could do all of these things if He wanted to, I just don't think He did.
In addition to that, as I explained to your husband, Peter, I have a solid testimony that Joseph Smith had a visitation, in 1820, by God and his Son, Jesus Christ, and he manifested that they were two separate beings, and that God introduced His Son to Joseph Smith by putting His hand forth and saying, "This is my Beloved Son. Hear Him."
If you will read the following article, it should put all questions about why Mormons do not believe in the trinity to rest...
http://tinyurl.com/kmr2pv
What about the thief on the cross? He was never baptized, and he never had a chance to put his faith into action, and yet Jesus told him that He would be with him in paradise. How can that be if his salvation wasn't completed?
Okay friends, I would like to thank you SOOOOOOO much for being here today! It's time for me to go pick up the kids from school now, but if you would like to further continue this conversation, please leave your comment or question here...
http://theblogfrog.com/psearch/ViewThread.aspx?view=last&threadID=3618&blogID=117556
...and I will address it during the week.
Thank you, again, for a polite and thoughtful discussion and I hope to see many of you next week and also some of you who were lurking but didn't comment!
Have a WONDERFUL week!
Love, Jen
You don't believe in the trinity? But that is so obvious from Scripture. Oh, I wish I had more time. Are you going to continue this next week? Because if you are, I'll be back if I can.
Anonymous, I believe we posted our comments at the same time. If you would like me to address your last comment, could you copy and paste it at the above link? Thank you!
As usual, excellent job, Jen!
Love ya :o)
Hey Mom2,
In case noone tells you this today, you are wonderful. I am sorry I missed your Q & A again. But looking at the content I can appreciate your willingness to lay it all out there, and your show of patience as well as "Scripture Power" (one of our fav Primary hymns) is really great.
C and Momza, thank you so much for your compliments! They almost made me cry!
Thanks so much for "representing"
& standing up for truth & rightiousness.
I also am a PROUD but TOO
SILENT memeber of this great church. You are doing some awesome work.
You are lucky to have such a great knowledge & seem not afraid to be like Benjamin(king)& stand on the tower of the "WEB" and "shout out" this knowledge. Thnaks again, Rosie T, AKA rosycheeks
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